Nihilism, Theology, and the Limits of Blogging
by Adam Robbert
A whole new round of posts have gone up in response to Footnotes2plato’s post regarding OOO, theology, and nihilism. Levi Bryant (here and here) Tim Morton (here - love the phrase “theism-nihilism tango” BTW) Tom Sparrow (here and here) Leon Niemoczynski (here - he has several more on the discussion as well) and one last one from Matt Segall (here). I’ve tried to be comprehensive in my accounts of the dialogue going on here, hopefully I am not missing anyone.
Beyond the interesting and generally in depth level of discussion happening around the questions of nihilism, naturalism, theology, OOO, and process philosophy, its been a very interesting case study in the limits and capacities of theory blogging. I apologize if I misrepresent or occlude anything vital in these discussions, but it becomes very difficult for me to sort through not just all of the interesting posts, but also all of the associated comment streams. If any software engineers or web designers are reading this – please help us, we need better mediums to communicate with!
More than problems of medium, there is also the more general problem of disparate approaches, disciplinary backgrounds, philosophical aims and methodological strategies that are frequent in the blogosphere. I think Tom hits the nail on the head when he writes:
There’s a very large methodological problem lurking in background of this discussion which Adam (Knowledge Ecology) touches upon in his comment. It is, unfortunately, the question: What is philosophy (supposed to be doing)? Adam seems to favor a style that takes from here and there and builds a view that is something like a patchwork of ideas. This way of going about things seems to be antithetical to the major variants of OOO, which, as I understand them, aspire to be systematic. Favoring the former approach leaves the door open for the fusion of OOO and process theology, or any theology for that matter, but if one is taking a particular iteration of OOO and trying to work out all of the metaphysical problems it raises, then it seems that these must be addressed internally.
I think Tom has fairly depicted how I approach philosophy, though I’m not sure if I totally agree with his comments about OOO being totally “systemic,” as it seems to me that OOO is highly promiscuous in its inclusion of multiple different philosophical and theoretical systems. I’m thinking here of the “feral” philosophy posts initiated by Michael from Archive Fire and Levi from Larval Subjects in the past few weeks (an approach to which Levi seemed favorable). OOO-variants are indeed building systematic philosophical arguments, but they draw from a diversity of fields (systems theory, process philosophy, Heideggerian philosophy, phenomenology, computer programming, ecology, panpsychist discourses, ANT etc), thus I think OOO is both systematic and a patchwork. My point about the ecology of ideas (to which Tom is referring) has to do with the fact that, by virtue of being performed or expressed in thought or practice, all modes of thought touch and influence one another, whether or not systematic theory building has taken place. I think these very discussions are evidence of this. Fusion can and will occur, regardless of specialization or systemization.
Personally, I do draw from a diverse group of philosophies and approaches, though this is not necessarily because I’m uninterested in specialization or rigorous approaches to specific issues within a given philosophical framework (Tom, I don’t think you implied this was the case, I am merely drawing the issue out further). Rather, I organize my research around specific problems rather than specific disciplines or systems. Yeah, yeah, call me a pragmatist. Pedagogy and the issues of transdisciplinary research are central interests of mine, especially as they relate to media ecology and multiple approaches to problem solving. In this sense I am appreciative of what Tom is asking us to consider when in dialogue.
If you look at my approach from a problem-based perspective, I would argue that one would find a great deal of consistency in approach, but diversity in influence. Using a certain problem or question as a central attractor makes it seem, from a disciplinary perspective, that all kinds of lines are being blurred (because they are), from a problem-based perspective, however, I think one will find a great deal of consistency insofar as the diversity of approaches are being organized around a single aim or task. This is not the only way to do philosophy and theory, its just the way I have learned to do it, and one of my interests happens to be in integrating multiple disparate perspectives (see the multiple posts on integral ecology on this blog).
Thanks to everyone for participating in these discussions. As the links to the above posts indicate, there are a plethora of issues that should each be taken up individually and with care here.
A good treatment of the issues. I think that most of the explosion was due to itchy trigger fingers on the topic of religion.
Thanks for the extrapolation on your approach, Adam. The discussion reminds me of the diverse ways of approaching Deleuze’s work. Perhaps this is an erroneous disjunction, but there are two primary ways to take Deleuze: the first is to take his invitation to use his (and Guattari’s) philosophy as a toolbox for working on problems. The other approach is to consider him in the light of the great rationalists he loves so much–Spinoza, Leibniz, even Descartes (and Kant). One might draw the distinction between the work he does with and without Guattari.
This is not directed at you, but to the larger discussion. Is there any room for God in a system whose functions, events, phenomena, and processes can be explained by physics? It sometimes seems like the process theologians want to have it both ways. Instead of rejecting physical explanations, however, they rename things and endow them with a mysterious connotation, thereby implying (or imposing) divinity on the mystery. If you want to say that what is mysterious = what is divine, that’s fine. But then we’re just having a semantic argument, which is something I suspect is happening at the OOO/Process Theological interface.
Let me say that I’m not yet sure about what your stake is here, I’m just throwing out a quick reply after a read of your post.
Unfortunately, I am not very theologically sophisticated myself. I tried to draw this point out in my initial response to Matt Segall (footnotes2plato). I am enthusiastic about what he is doing (alright, full disclosure he is also a good friend of mine in the real world), though I can’t say that I could argue convincingly for the relevance of notions of God when it comes to questions of physics.
My original stake in this conversation had only to do with the question of depth (especially with regards to the human) within the context of a flat ontology- which I don’t reject, but have questions about. My considerations of this are in my post “The Quadruple Tension.” Questions of nihilism and theology have subsequently cropped up and now I am more or less just following the discussion.
Gotcha, thanks.
I’m not convinced that process can be explained by physics at all, especially given energetic/material duality and the artifacts of quantum physics. Likewise, I’m not convinced that process theology can get more than the “god of the philosophers” from process metaphysics without becoming theology proper.
Jason,
If I’m hearing you right, it sounds like you’re saying that there hasn’t been enough stress on the _theological_ aspect of process theology, in the sense that process theology brings with it theological commitments that a nondogmatic metaphysics leaves out. Or do you think that metaphysics will necessarily be incomplete without God? If so, what is missing?
Plasticorpus,
Yes, I am saying that process theology from the side of the discipline of philosophy appears to stress process metaphysics more than theology. I stress “appears,” because I am not a scholar of process theology, although I am not unfamiliar with it. From the theological side of the discipline, I know that much more has been done, but I have not seen that side enter the conversation here. I do think that metaphysics is incomplete without answering a few fundamental questions that are often attributed to God, e.g., why is there something rather than nothing, why is there order rather than chaos, why is there progressive order in our locale of the cosmos, etc. I do not think that we need to give “God” as an answer, but I also believe that such a fundamental principle opens the door to theological explanation. Regardless, those questions will only lead to a “god of the philosophers.” However, they *must* be dwelt with anew in process theology, because process metaphysics requires an entire re-working of the problems of natural evil, free will, cosmogenesis, etc. On the flip side–surprise–it also affects secular responses as well. This is why we cite Leibniz, Spinoza, German Idealism, and classical process metaphysics; they have answers to this, although I’m curious how our participants parse those answers.
I’m all for focusing on specifics, including but not limited to problems, but such work seems to bring with it all of the related problems of
framing/pre-judices and so put us back at square one no? This is why such dilemmas seem to beg for procedural/managerial solutions, working agreements on how we will make decisions, rather than strictly theoretical ones.
I agree. There is no easy way to over come problems of framing and prejudice. I don’t think it is a situation we ever “get out of,” rather we must constantly engage these questions again and again. For me, I find that engaging my community- being in dialogue with others and engaging difference- is essential to understanding ones own “frame.” Beyond this I use multiple methodological approaches to draw out the implicit assumptions within any given approach and attempt to assess their respective validity to the task at hand. This is definitely an art, and a problematic one at that.
very good, Shotter is a bit overly enthusiastic (and he has generously owned up to this in private communications) about our abilities to get in sync, I think most non pls pass the salt communication is mis-communication, but he is on the right track:
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~jds/Essex.htm
This looks like a great essay, thanks passing it along!
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